First Three Reports.
The rolling news from Ft. Hood after 2 pm Eastern Time today was a flashback to the early days of the war with the jihadists when I would train myself not to accept the first reports. My saying to myself was "In war, the first three reports are wrong." Good example today because the sketchy early reports were of several dead, one shooter killed, two accomplices in firefights or at large. None of this stood up to the updates. As of now, the report is 12 KIA, 31 wounded, including the lone shooter. Among the wounded is the lone shooter who now becomes the mystery for the next wave of reports.
Major Malik Nadal Hassan.
The lone shooter is identified as an Army psychiatrist from Virginia, Major Malik Nadal Hassan. He is said to be 39, single, with two brothers, one of whom lives in Jerusalem. His parents emigrated from Jordan. The NYT spoke with his Imam in Virginia, who called Hassan "very serious about his religion." The Times also points to a website link on Scribld, and this information on it was written by "Nadal Hassan." It is a grim message, composed in stream of consciousness, with sloppy grammar and spelling. It is entirely about murder, self-murder, rationalization for murder, and a recognziably trite version of what Islam requires of a pious man. If this is Hassan, the attack at Ft. Hood is not the act of insane person as understand. Hassan knows the difference between right and wrong, between sin and virtue. Hassan, if this is the man who wrote this, know that he destroyed soldiers in order to protect others. Right and wrong. Hassan is alive. He will stand trial, if he lives. He will answer for his crimes. And he will speak of his rationalization for murder. Right now, with the investigation ongoing, it looks that he acted alone. Jihad. Anyone else? Email. Cellphones. Letters. Tapes. Suicide notes. All possible.
Commander-In-Chief
Note that the White House and the Congress handled the news carefully and with grace. POTUS made a heavy accurate statement about the tragedy. POTUS did go out of his way to call himself "commander-in-chief." It is a small detail to observe how the White House handles the facts of Hassan -- the Jordanian and Islam heritage, the notes about suicide and Allah and self-murder. If this is jihad, then it is correct to speak succintly and correctly. If this is jihad, the fighters of the Ummah are nodding in the cafes as they read and hear the news.
When convicted, his hanging should be televised. But it won't.
Political correctness won out and allowed this man, a ticking time bomb, to go off and take the lives of twelve, wound thirty, and traumatize a nation. People around him knew he was not with the program, yet no one was secure enough to take action. He was allowed to fester in place. This was a man who was counseling PTSD patients returned from Iraq and Afghanistan with tales of horror. How many of them did he push into deeper despair by increasing their doubts about their actions in battle? Criminal negligence.
We shook our heads, creased our foreheads and clucked our tongues every time a military installation was attacked in Rawalpindi, Pakistan recently. We pronounced Pakistan a ‘failed’ state – a failed state with nukes. HRC received much praise in some quarters for talking tough during her recent visit to Pakistan. It reminded me of sitting on the back end of one of those horse-drawn two-wheelers on the streets of some non-descript South Indian town when the horse (bag of bones as he was) suddenly dropped like a rock, catapulting us all - passengers and driver alike – forward and onto the still steaming carcass that the spirit had already abandoned. Luckily, save the horse, no one was hurt. We simply brushed ourselves off and walked away. Looking back once more, we saw the driver still sitting next to his dead horse and wailing sorrowfully while beating it with a stick.
Now we can add Ft. Hood to the list of targets of the insurgency. It’s interesting that no one in the government-media complex will come right out and say it, preferring instead to speculate on the psychopathic loner theory, likely driven over the edge by right-wing hate radio. The people, however, are not that dumb. As soon as they heard his name, they knew. They know that America’s current leaders are in a race for time; that, for some inexplicable reason, they are willfully sowing the seeds of chaos, intent on catching up, and overtaking the likes of Pakistan – failed States. There seems to be no rhyme or reason other than revenge; to lay every painful aspect of the human condition on America’s doorstep and make her pay.
http://peterkoelliker.blogspot.com/
quite a statement PK And while i will agree a collective hard breath was drawn when the name Malik Nadal Hassan did go out across the nation as the perpetrator of this vile act. As the time is beginning to reveal his motive - he looks more and more the lone assailant And that is a better thing. We do not wish to start thinking of second guessing each and every person of the muslim faith in or around the services and police forces -Do We?
His faith community is in shock, his family and neighbors as well and aside from rantings on the internet where anonymity provides normally for a peaceful way to exhaust useless animosity - He didn't register as an alarm.
I will have you note the weapons he used where not government issued and base policy is very strict upon carrying weapons on post. So When did he obtain these weapons? Agencies say he was on their radar 6 months prior, due to his internet statements - so if he purchased weapons legally after the agencies caught wind of him a red flag ought to have gone up the flagpole.
I don't think we should dig our heels into this solitude event and proclaim anything
OK, this is difficult to believe and first reports not to be trusted however, this isn't insurgency or terrorism or even stress as in PTSD; it is the stress of living ones life alone. Reading through several articles this is what I got:
1. Major Hasan was a prior enlisted person who broke with his parents when he joined the military (somewhere around 1992?--he was 8 years prior service; may or may not already of had college, was chosen to go to military medical school and served his internship and residence at Walter Reed--a total of 6 years there, very long assignment even for a medical type).
2. parents died 10 years go and two brother and a sister have passing contact with him; he talks with is aunt (in Arab culture, his next mother after his mother) but doesn't tell her he's hired a lawyer to get him out of the military.
3. He was looking for a wife (according to his Imam in Virgina--who is a celebrity all his own since Washington Post goes to him to ask questions on Islam all the time) but was "too picky" because "he wanted someone really religious". He was not known to the Mosque attendees in general--never goes to celebrations just prayers.
4. He is sent to Ft Hood either because its time to rotate or he got a bad eval--probably because its time to rotate bad eval is usually a reason to keep a person not send them on (my military experience says this not the news, however he is Medical Corps and they are a breed apart; I have seen promotion boards attempt to keep a surgeon with three DUIs in by promoting him when regular military would not be considered--but He was a "great" surgeon and only drank when he wad driving, err, not in surgery or so they board tried to tell me...) I assume something similar for the major, a fantastic doctor too good to let go.
5. He needed help and companionship--he had just,(within the last 6 months) changed stations, a hard time in any military person's life and harder if you a. don't have a supportive family and b. have no friends and c. find work oppressive (he was trying to push people away with his discussion of Islam not bring them to him).
The Army failed him, his family failed him, the Med Corps failed him, his fellow military failed him and we the public will also fail to understand him and if we do leave ourselves open to more of these attacks. Yes, he did this horrible crime and he should and will be punished if he lives but we could have recognized this guy needed help way before he blew 13 people (as of today) away.
People with no support systems are always at risk; the problem is recognizing who are those with support.
By the way, I am not expressing sympathy for what this guy did; he deserves what the courts-martial board or jury decides....but without understanding that this can be anyone without good support we will be doomed to experience it again. I think the Army will figure this out; the public and the administration--not so much.
As usual Peter makes the leap into pure delusion, except this time he goes lower than he's ever been before by warping this tragedy, still devoid of the facts and the results of investigation, into some malformed theory that the PotUS and all the good people in every wing of our government are in conspiracy to render America hopeless and incapacitated.
A new low for you, Peter! In your words "The people, however, are not that dumb"
Why does it seem that I am the only one who will ever take issue with this guys' remarks?
Thank you, pat!
And as always, Anon...
Great minds think alike, and fools seldom differ.
I been here b-4 reading and reacting to PK's notions -I see his fundamental underpinnings and understand them -but at the same time not everything is of a larger motive and reason
sometimes a duck is just a duck
I don't think that the Founding Fathers ever envisaged a time when this country would have millions of Muslims living here. And if they had, something tells me that they would have thought it was a bad idea--as, I rather imagine, do the grieving family members of the the Ft. Hood shooting victims this very day.
To paraphrase Lamont Cranston, "The weed of multiculturalism bears bitter fruit."
i am amazed simply and thoroughly.
multiculturalism is not what has brought this event to come to pass (at least upon this hour). it is a very naive view to hold - This is an American Soldier. And the current developing story is a soul torn between his faith & his country.
This is not becoming some disenfranchised character turning to Islam and being swayed to act out or a new citizen who has refused to assimilate to the society .
Undeniably an act motivated by perverse ideology reinforced by hopelessness and desperation.
Not unlike OK City, Columbine, VA Tech, etc etc - too many- homegrown and dangerous
McVeigh, Harris, Klebold, Whitman, Cho, Kazmierczak, Muhummad, Hennard... too many to list
Multiculturalism, Kenneth? You mean the great and diverse population in America that was well instituted before the Founding Fathers were even born?
Those immigrants??
I am puzzled at your amazement. This non-Western soul was torn between his non-Western faith and this still-Western country. Multiculturalism produces such conflict the way swamps breed yellow fever.
"Multiculturalism, Kenneth? You mean the great and diverse population in America that was well instituted before the Founding Fathers were even born?
"Those immigrants??"
Nonsense. The Thirteen Colonies consited almost exclusively of whites (who were in fact immigrants), slaves (not immigrants) and Indians (not immigrants, whom we mostly exterminated).
We did not become a "diverse" society until Ted Kennedy's 1965 Immigration Act, the fruits of which we are now harvesting in Ft. Hood and elsewhere.
So freedom in America to worship one's faith is the basis by which u deem multiculturalism is the bane of western civilization?
Did u know Christians strung black people from nooses in Poplar trees once? Was that the evidence of a grand singular culture? Remind us of how well the Western cultures were welcomed to our nation in their bid for the dream of liberty and escape of oppression?
But that is your point isn't . . . This country is not meant to be a bastion of Freedom for all persons, just the ones you wish to select from. Germany once tried their hands at such sociel engineering as well
Kenneth: my family came from Germany, France, England, Scotland, Ireland, and Italy and believed that Canada and the US were one because their tribe lived on both sides of the "border" (Cree indian). All of this was before 1965--in fact all of this was before 1909....I am a product of multiculturalism as are my children and grandchildren (add Tejan, Aztec Mexican, and Guamanian). None of us have recently thought of going on a rampage. Are we conflicted, perhaps....for instance, not one of my cousins and I are the same religion (we don't ban either political discussion or religious discussion from the house as its too much fun "arguing" who is right). We also run the spectrum of conservative to liberal as well as Jehovah Witness to Roman Catholic. It hasn't made anyone a killer (OK, my liberal cousins sometimes accuse me of being a "trained killer" and that's true because of my military experience but we all realize this is just being "cute" with political language.)
Multi-culturalism isn't bad--political correctness is bad. This major wasn't conflicted about culture; he was conflicted about life. There are now pictures of him the day before in Afghani dress (incorrectly labeled by AP as "his religious dress"--how's that for not having multi-culturalism, good going AP). And stories he was "giving away" things from his apartment "before he deployed" (except the deployment schedule was for January 2010 and its a little early to be giving away your food in the frig--which his neighbor said he did). Classic sign of a person convinced he would not need this stuff as he wasn't "returning"--i.e suicide sign; which he masterfully covered by living off base and not in a military neighborhood (i.e. where someone might have spotted a problem). He was very good at push people away--family, friends, co-workers....this is a clear sign of person under stress from not living a full life. (By the way the pictures show him smiling as he worked; which both co-workers and relatives said was unusual for him--he could have been depressed a long time; it may even be why he choose his profession...but this total speculation on my part).
I have no idea what the investigation will find but I do know just by the off-handed comments that this guy was alone, lonely and needed help but at the same time couldn't seem to ask for it. It wasn't his multiculturalism that did that, it was himself....he thought of himself as set apart and indeed he was and now will be for as long as he lives.
- well said my friend very well said
>Did u know Christians strung black people from nooses in Poplar trees once?
I had heard something to that effect, yes. In fact, it just happens to be a prime example of how diversity decreases social trust. Harvard sociologist Robert Putnam makes that very point here.
>This country is not meant to be a bastion of Freedom for all persons, just the ones you wish to select from.
You really haven't thought this through, have you? Mexicans have a per capita income of ten thousand dollars a year, which puts them in the top twenty percent of the world's countries in regard to earnings--and yet at least half of that relatively prosperous land's sixty million inhabitants express a desire to move here. Which raises an interesting question: What about world's the other peoples, living as they do in places where the per capita income is but a few hundred dollars per annum? Are you going to let them all five billion of them in here?
If your answer is yes, then you effectively advocate a policy of natonal suicide as this country is swamped economically, culturally,and environmentally.
If your anwser is no, then congratulations: You have just put yourself in the business of choosing who comes in and who stays out, the very practice you now decry.
>Germany once tried their hands at such sociel engineering as well
Spare me the puerile reductio ad hitlerums. The madness that you refer to is exactly what I'm afraid our unthinking acceptance of multiculturalism will bring about. Enoch Powell tells us that the supreme function of statesmanship is to provide against preventable evils, something that you would do well to keep in mind.
>Multi-culturalism isn't bad--political correctness is bad.
One ineluctably leads to the other. It didn't used to be against the law to draw cartoons mocking Mohammed in European countries until Muslims moved there in large numbers.
Apologies. My link for the fascinating Robert Putnam article does not work correctly. Try this instead:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/
This is part of a recent Stratfor report, which came out before this killing spree.
Counterterrorism: Shifting from 'Who' to 'How'
By Scott Stewart and Fred Burton | November 4, 2009
In the 11th edition of the online magazine Sada al-Malahim (The Echo of Battle), which was released to jihadist Web sites last week, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) leader Nasir al-Wahayshi wrote an article that called for jihadists to conduct simple attacks against a variety of targets. The targets included "any tyrant, intelligence den, prince" or "minister" (referring to the governments in the Muslim world like Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Yemen), and "any crusaders whenever you find one of them, like at the airports of the crusader Western countries that participate in the wars against Islam, or their living compounds, trains etc.," (an obvious reference to the United States and Europe and Westerners living in Muslim countries).
Related Special Topic Pages
Al-Wahayshi, an ethnic Yemeni who spent time in Afghanistan serving as a lieutenant under Osama bin Laden, noted these simple attacks could be conducted with readily available weapons such as knives, clubs or small improvised explosive devices (IEDs). According to al-Wahayshi, jihadists "don't need to conduct a big effort or spend a lot of money to manufacture 10 grams of explosive material" and that they should not "waste a long time finding the materials, because you can find all these in your mother's kitchen, or readily at hand or in any city you are in."
That al-Wahayshi gave these instructions in an Internet magazine distributed via jihadist chat rooms, not in some secret meeting with his operational staff, demonstrates that they are clearly intended to reach grassroots jihadists -- and are not intended as some sort of internal guidance for AQAP members. In fact, al-Wahayshi was encouraging grassroots jihadists to "do what Abu al-Khair did" referring to AQAP member Abdullah Hassan Taleh al-Asiri, the Saudi suicide bomber who attempted to kill Saudi Deputy Interior Minister Prince Mohammed bin Nayef with a small IED on Aug. 28.
New detail, under investigation: shooter Hasan brother lives in East Jerusalem. Reported runs a cell phone concession or shop. No comment yet. Family from East Jerusalem/West Bank. They are not Jordanians only -- they are better described as Palestinians. Brother not on any known list. The cell phone shop is the key detail. The gangs use many cell phones and change them often, because the digital Israelis track their calls. Everything in East Jerusalem is wired and tracked. Everything. Emphasize, everything -- especially data transmissions from Washington DC. Perhaps there is nothing. Perhaps there is nitro.
@Spencer: Peace be upon you. No, you are not alone in noticing this. Peter and Lou are the in-residence Loony Tunes duo on this website. I roll my eyes at these two and pass on.
But then again this is the feverish paranoid mentality that has gripped "the base" in the age of Rove-Beck-Palin. What has stricken "conservatism" is nothing other than McCarthyism 2.0
The dirty secret is that this civil war within the GOP and conservatism will continue until some leaders [some adult(s)] come to terms with the inept disaster that was the Bush presidency.
As you may have noticed during Thursday's freak show outside Capitol Hill, there are no leaders or adults within the GOP "leadership" with the moral integrity to speak out against this vile nonsense that debases the presidency and our politics.
I mean, really: http://tinyurl.com/yav3ypd
John Boehner, a moral coward, stood silently in approval on Thursday amidst the vile rhetoric about Obama's mythical "Marxist plot to destroy America."
Is there no decency or sanity left in our politics? http://tinyurl.com/ybflfe7
Et tu, John?
OK let's look at this: Tim McVeigh and Major Hasan are similar personalities--alone and adrift; it may be reasonable to think that like the veteran Army Sgt (McVeigh, with a bronze star and "combat" time in Desert Storm) the medical doctor with some shooting classes and no combat time could think about destruction of a society that neither liked them nor they liked.
But if we start going after everyone with a connection to the middle east and who has a cell phone we will go crazy (I have friends in the middle east and they have a cell phone; John don't you have friends there and don't they have cells too?)
Can't we wait and see what this is really all about---we do know the major was disturbed; we do know that no one notice this....yet it seems so readily evident to all of us who before yesterday didn't know anything about this man.
Could it be coordinated Jihad, yes it could but a connection to a brother who is a seller of cell phones....Really? Great blog material...and my spouse the conspiracy "nut" will love it. I, however, need more. Why?
Well, because the impact of this event for military members is a lack of trust of the guy next to you. If I don't trust the guy next to me then I don't know that he has my back...and I won't go out looking to "kill people and break things with them"....this is why the Army can't be looking for "stress" problems or PC ideas on this. Soldiers need TRUST restored. And soon...before the agony aunts in the media drive our active duty military members mad!
Perhaps their is nitro--more likely we will all need a bromo.
>the impact of this event for military members is a lack of trust of the guy next to you. If I don't trust the guy next to me then I don't know that he has my back...
It requires much less of a leap of faith to trust the guy next to you if he's from Fargo than if he's from the West Bank. Amazing how something so obvious is so hard to understand.
"It requires much less of a leap of faith to trust the guy next to you if he's from Fargo than if he's from the West Bank."
Major Nidal Hasan was born and raised in Virginia -- which is located inside the United States of America.
If Hasan was from the West Bank then it would be difficult, but you know what--he wasn't. He was from Virginia and don't tell me that stuff about he was culturally still an Arab (i.e religiously Islamic). He isn't some poor kid 15 from the West Bank filled up with stuff and nonsense about the US ready to strap on a suicide vest. He is an American, educated in America and an Army officer (abide a medical one) invested in Army culture. You only have hearsay on anything else--the website, the "harassment" (it's really hard to harass an Army major by the way), the "it's all the wrong war" stuff because you just have no one really close to this guy who can speak to WHY he did it.
And without knowing why--who do I suppect? Do I suspect everyone who is an Army Officer; or everyone who is a Army medical officer; or everyone who is an Army medical officer who is an American or everyone who is an Army medical officer who is an American and Islamic or just anyone who is an Army medical officer who is an American, Islamic and depressed? (where does your West Bank kid fit in in that litany?)
I refuse to be Joe McCarthy and see "communists" everywhere. Unlike Joe I know where the enemy is...for now. You have to prove, not insinuate, that my enemy is my wingman, gunner, or the guy fighting next to me. For now, I not only refuse to believe it; my very life depends on me not believing it.
Proof--it's not just for mathematicians (sorry my son is mathematician and it was just too good a pun).
Hassan can be from the United Federation of Planets for all I care. It's still generally easier--and usually safer--to trust people who are like you than people who aren't.
"To see what is in front of one's nose requires a constant struggle."--Orwell.
"It's still generally easier--and usually safer--to trust people who are like you than people who aren't."
Who is this "like you" Kemosabe?
So how did the whole multicultural/immigration thing work out for your people, Tonto? Did the white man smoothly integrate himself into your society to the benefit of both races?
you win. I don't trust---you.
We aren't alike. I don't quote Orwell. I've spent my entire adult life in the military. And I find exclusionism disgusting.
I would not like your America at all--all wearing those plain, drab mao jackets with their small Lenin medals for doing good jobs at work...oh wait, I belong to something similar except we aren't Fascist! We believe the military is a reflection of US society and sometimes we go nuts just like everyone else. Major Hasan maybe nuts or he may be a jihadist but one thing I do know--I have more in common with him (God help me) that with you.
Lucky for you (and everyone else) other people are more forgiving of people's upbringing and backgrounds. Please don't respond; I understand your point. Everyone should be just like you to be American.
(and since I am not like you, I am on my way to find the United Federation of Planets--I am hoping they still have a real alcoholic drink so that I can drink a toast with Sisco, Picard, Kirk , Spock or Data...) Anon. out. (for now....just mad and taking my marbles home).
>Major Hasan maybe nuts or he may be a jihadist but one thing I do know--I have more in common with him (God help me) that with you.
If I understand you correctly, you feel that you have more in common with a mass killer who cold-bloodedly guns down his comrades than someone of pacific inclinations who merely disagrees with you on the merits of multiculturalism.
You are exhibit A in how mulitculturalism breeds political correctness and intolerance.
No Anonymous is nothing like the traitorous Hasan and He certainly hasn't portrayed himself to be like you Kenneth Stevens, a persons who wraps himself in a bigots skin and dares to suggest this is how America was designed to exist -despite what the evidence has suggested to the contradiction. That all persons not cut of the European cloth or were of African slave descendants or the last of the Aboriginal tribes of the ( )Americas are substandard and of no value to the United States of America.
U do realize w/out the influx of these undesirables -this nation will vanish swiftly do to lack of births?
>That all persons not cut of the European cloth or were of African slave descendants or the last of the Aboriginal tribes of the ( )Americas are substandard and of no value to the United States of America.
You do not speak the truth. I said no such thing, and you can't find a quote to that effect.
Contra these gross generalizations about "multiculturalism, and defending the necessary glue of E Pluribus Unum I offer you exhibit A: General Eric Shinseki, and General John Abizaid, as respective American patriots -- who, by the way, never committed a felony during their military service.
And that is the point. I don't care where Hasan or his family is from. This is a man with 20+ years of Army service, and a psychiatrist to boot. Someone years ago in a position of authority determined years ago that Hasan was worthy of the rank and certifications that he earned. Hasan is no less susceptible to stress, emotions, delusions, and temptation then the rest of us.
The problem is that Hasan crossed the line and that is unacceptable, and he will rightfully be held to account. But I am not comfortable traveling down the road of suspicion, monitoring, isolation, etc. against service members with a so-called "peculiar/undesirable" heritage and faith.
The law is the law, and an oath is an oath -- against which Hasan should be held to account for his actions.
"What has stricken "conservatism" is nothing other than McCarthyism 2.0"
I can't defend the "-ism" but unfortunately McCarthy was right. There were communists everywhere. Even at Los Alamos. McCarthyism may have discredited the cause. But this time, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. And frankly, I'm not willing to concede that there is any bathwater.
I don't know what Kenneth's thing is. I believe in American culture, and a faithful follower of Islam is not really compatible with the healthy continuation of our republic. I don't care what color or creed a person may be, as long as they hold to the basic principles of liberty set out in the Constitution. "Cafeteria Muslims" if there is such a thing (an analog to cafeteria Catholics) might be compatible with our society, but a for Muslim who is faithful to all of the Koran, we must recognize that there is an incompatibility of culture.
"I believe in American culture, and a faithful follower of Islam is not really compatible with the healthy continuation of our republic. I don't care what color or creed a person may be, as long as they hold to the basic principles of liberty set out in the Constitution. "Cafeteria Muslims" if there is such a thing (an analog to cafeteria Catholics) might be compatible with our society, but a for Muslim who is faithful to all of the Koran, we must recognize that there is an incompatibility of culture.
The bottom line is accountability, respect for the law, and fidelity to ones oath of office, oath of military service, etc.
Case in point, Congressman Keith Ellison, of Minnesota: http://tinyurl.com/yfvh79
I don't want to live in a society based on the moral code of a Judge Roy Bean.
Two observations:
(1) Until something remotely similar to this happens again, it's not a trend, and absolutely no conclusions can be drawn from it. Well, correct conclusions anyway.
(2) I've heard it said that we should exclude Muslims from the military. Ridiculous ... we have identified a group of people we can put in the front line from now on, like we did with the Buffalo Soldiers in the Civil War. What a waste it would be to exclude them.
Argh!
People, Hasan wasn't "practicing Islam" any more then Tim McVeigh was being a Christian (or a white guy for that matter).
Hasan's view of life is skewed. The problem was no one saw it because no one was close to him.
This maybe the problem with most people who are attracted to Terrorism as well but it definitely is what makes for repressed feelings that can explode.
And for Ken, it's the repressed feelings part that most in military culture can identify with.(And if you can't identify with this then we really are less alike; this is not me being intolerant, Ken. It's you not being able to see that "purity" is exactly what fascists (be they Islamo-fascist or Nazis or currently the French deciding what is "french") are all about. I know you don't see it that way but others on this forum should (or so I hope).
We would all of us, like to vivify this guy and make him less like us. Problem is, he is just like us (you too Ken). And That's what's scary.
Now I really am going to bed and hope that you all didn't really mean to say that some people are worth more than others....in this area, God made human worth actually equal. Doesn't mean to say that bad things done by people won't be punished or justice done. It just means you can't demean a class of people just 'cause you don't like them or understand them. And that isn't being PC, that's honoring the Constitution. (should I have to tell you this like you've never had a govt class in your lives?)
Any of you actually read the US Constitution lately--I am pretty sure that 5/8ths of a person thing isn't in it (so the Buffalo Soldiers crack is very uncalled for, Lou, shame on you). It also says the govt shall not recognize any religion--as in single it out--for better or worse treatment. Islam may not be your cup of tea (it isn't mine) but it isn't actually the work of the devil (Evangelicals, I know you don't agree please understand I also don't agree with you and Thank God, we live in America and we can leave it there).
Being different doesn't cause problems--people thinking that being different causes problems is the problem.
And if we have decided to put Americans who are Muslims in the front lines (as if wars have "front lines" now a days LOL) because of this heinous act--then you better put me there too because America won't be the same country I thought I was defending.
How does that old German chestnut go--"they came for the trade unionists and I didn't belong to a trade union so I didn't speak up; they came for the Catholics and I wasn't Catholic so I didn't speak up; they came for the Jews and I wasn't Jewish so I didn't speak up; then they came for me...and there was no one left to speak up."
In rebuttal to my remarks, you wrote--> "Nonsense. The Thirteen Colonies consited almost exclusively of whites (who were in fact immigrants), slaves (not immigrants) and Indians (not immigrants, whom we mostly exterminated)."
Those "whites" you refer to as populating the colonies were made up of immigrants from many nations and cultures in Europe. Those slaves were "forced" to immigrate and really were human beings, too. Those Indians were victims of a perverse ideology of genocide called "manifest destiny" which was formulated as a policy well after the writing of the D of I. I think they were more human than most beings and very diverse, too.
What's weird is, Kenneth, I know you know these things without me having to point them out.
Anyway, has anyone heard any news of the US soldier that abandoned his post in Afgha and wandered off into the hands of the Taliban?
Just a comment in general to everyone- I've never seen more thoughtful and elaborate persuasion enunciated on this forum
humani nil a me alienum puto et docendo discimus
I just think it's somebody who's a little frustrated and blowing off some steam. And being a bit ungracious in the process, but sometimes pain does that to people.
I think if "Anonymous" re-reads my comments after he's calmed down a bit it may dawn on him that I was both agreeing and commiserating with him.
In general I would prefer people using their real names, if you got something to say why hide behind an alias? I know, I know, Benjamin Franklin made a lifelong practice of it, but just chalk that up to one thing I don't particularly admire about Benjamin.
My name is LOU FILLIGER. Spencer, Anonymous, what are your names? Are you ashamed of them? Or are you ashamed of what you're saying and don't want it tied to your real names?
I should have stayed off this thread anyway, this Fort Hood thing is about the most irrelevant current event I can think of at this point. People got to die sooner or later anyway, next time maybe I'll be lucky enough to be in the room the shooter comes into. In the meantime, back to the trenches.
Suicide in Islam is forbidden unless executed in the cause of attaining martyrdom in jihad. In this, Hasan failed and is guilty of taking innocent life which denies him consecration to Allah. Invariably, having survived, he will be in perpetual agony, if indeed, jihad was the intent.
In the opposite of this case, suicides of want to be martyrs which only succeed in killing themselves in jihad is also against Islam. It is not sufficient to just throw oneself away to be considered a martyr. It is better to live a long life than to destroy for the sake of destruction.
We also see these psychological manifestations in prisoners who are tormented because they have been captured alive on the battlefield. They profess their desire to be executed in order to achieve martyrdom which justifies the acts they have done in jihad. Those in jeopardy of being captured are just as apt to commit suicide as to be taken alive.
I'm going to say that Hasan was motivated by a loose identification to a perverted and contradictory ideology reinforced by hopelessness and desperation. Suicide by cop was the desired result- not martyrdom.
You wouldn't believe me anyway.
I'm not ashamed of what I write at all
Now, really, does it matter what my "real" name is? Believe me, it is of no consequence.
Mr Batchelor's forum is the only site I frequent and place my comments upon. I've appreciated his presentations for many years.
At any rate, a name or a face does not a person make... it's the inner self. And my inner self enjoys the exercise I find here amongst all you other free thinkers.
This from noted bigot John Stuart Mill's "Considerations on Repreentative Government" (pay particular attention to the second paragraph--it's a real doozy, in light of the slaughter at Ft. Hood):
"Free institutions are next to impossible in a country made up of different nationalities. Among a people without fellow-feeling, especially if they read and speak different languages, the united public opinion, necessary to the working of representative government, cannot exist. The influences which form opinions and decide political acts are different in the different sections of the country. An altogether different set of leaders have the confidence of one part of the country and of another. The same books, newspapers, pamphlets, speeches, do not reach them. One section does not know what opinions, or what instigations, are circulating in another. The same incidents, the same acts, the same system of government, affect them in different ways; and each fears more injury to itself from the other nationalities than from the common arbiter, the state. Their mutual antipathies are generally much stronger than jealousy of the government. That any one of them feels aggrieved by the policy of the common ruler is sufficient to determine another to support that policy. Even if all are aggrieved, none feel that they can rely on the others for fidelity in a joint resistance; the strength of none is sufficient to resist alone, and each may reasonably think that it consults its own advantage most by bidding for the favour of the government against the rest.
"Above all, the grand and only effectual security in the last resort against the despotism of the government is in that case wanting: the sympathy of the army with the people. The military are the part of every community in whom, from the nature of the case, the distinction between their fellow-countrymen and foreigners is the deepest and strongest. To the rest of the people foreigners are merely strangers; to the soldier, they are men against whom he may be called, at a week’s notice, to fight for life or death. The difference to him is that between friends and foes — we may almost say between fellow-men and another kind of animals: for as respects the enemy, the only law is that of force, and the only mitigation the same as in the case of other animals — that of simple humanity. Soldiers to whose feelings half or three-fourths of the subjects of the same government are foreigners will have no more scruple in mowing them down, and no more desire to ask the reason why, than they would have in doing the same thing against declared enemies. An army composed of various nationalities has no other patriotism than devotion to the flag. Such armies have been the executioners of liberty through the whole duration of modern history. The sole bond which holds them together is their officers and the government which they serve; and their only idea, if they have any, of public duty is obedience to orders.”
>He was from Virginia and don't tell me that stuff about he was culturally still an Arab (i.e religiously Islamic).
I don't have to tell you anything, anonymous. Here are two sentences pulled from an article about Hasan that will do it for me:
First this: "'Finnell said Hasan told classmates he was 'a Muslim first and an American second.'"
Now this: "On a form filled out by those seeking spouses through a program at the mosque, Hasan listed his birthplace as Arlington, Va., but his nationality as Palestinian, Khan said."
Your grasp of the facts is no more impressive than is your eagerness to smear others as bigots for having the temerity to disagree with your nearly Pavlovian adherence to a failed multicultural dogma.
In a way, I understand how "irrelevant" might be ascribed to an event such as this.
On the other hand, we do have a national identity crisis we are trying to reconcile right now... what makes US American? Locale? Skin color? Religion? Ideology? Politics? etc.
Who might cultivate their neighbor as someone who can be relied on in these days and visa versa? Not to borrow some sugar or wave a hand from across the way, but, to infuse real trust and comity? What's the requirement that enables US to say "I know I can count on you, no matter what?"
We ourselves might be judged historically by how we, as individuals, answer the call for the Nation to be preserved and united in common cause. Does anyone seriously doubt that we are in trying times and need to stand together?
But, you know what? We are Americans and we know we are in this together and we know that this is our strength. We have the unique capability to become one despite of our differences.
pax vobiscum
Kenneth, I believe his extended family is in the Middle East/ Israel/ somewhere out there.
They have voiced their revulsion with his action and apologized for his disgrace of the family name.
>Those "whites" you refer to as populating the colonies were made up of immigrants from many nations and cultures in Europe. Those slaves were "forced" to immigrate and really were human beings, too. Those Indians were victims of a perverse ideology of genocide called "manifest destiny" which was formulated as a policy well after the writing of the D of I. I think they were more human than most beings and very diverse, too.
What's weird is, Kenneth, I know you know these things without me having to point them out.
You glimpse the truth, albeit through a glass, darkly. My point through this entire thread has been that people of widely divergent backgrounds tend to treat each other very badly indeed, often enslaving or exterminating those different from themselves, whether here in America or elsewhere, such as in the Balkans--probably for genetically-driven reasons rooted in evolutionary psychology, one of many subjects the majority of posters on this thread appear quite innocent of. (I suspect that Mr. Filliger is a happy exception to this.) Human nature is no more amenable to multiculturalism than it is to Marxism. Both are gods that failed.
I'm still waiting for you to back up your scurrilous allegation that I claimed that "all persons not cut of the European cloth or were of African slave descendants or the last of the Aboriginal tribes of the ( )Americas are substandard and of no value to the United States of America."
You are Exhibit B in how multiculturalism breeds intolerance of differing opinions.
>Does anyone seriously doubt that we are in trying times and need to stand together?
All the more reason not to treat Americans as lab rats in some multicultural experiment designed solely to make liberals feel good about themselves--especially not just now, when we face dwindling water and energy resources, a depression, and two wars.
Ken: insomnia or night shift? In either case--they only information we are seeing is what has been released to the public. Do you imagine the major put Palestinian on his paperwork to join the military? How about on his application to Virginia Tech (there is an in-state tuition difference...).
It doesn't matter, he was trying to make himself something other than what he was; sometimes this is a sign of self loathing; sometimes just a sign of a wish to remake yourself.
I spent the morning reading about those who died....I don't really want to discuss whether your views on multiculturalism are correct....go read the Washington Post's listing on who died and what their lives were like. They are all Americans but only about two (if that) would fit your "ideal".
Hope you get some sleep today. Your comments are always interesting. Joy Shasteen
"I don't really want to discuss whether your views on multiculturalism are correct," you post, and even epress your tender wishes that I get some rest. Of course, you say this only a few hours after you verbally spat in my face by calling me a fascist and holding me to be less a member of the human family than some mass murderer because I agree with a Harvard sociologist rather than you. Given that, why do you find it so hard to accept that I do not take the hysterical, hateful screechings of multiculturalists seriously?
Perhaps I was incorrect Kenneth and if I was I will apologize to you But I need to review your statements in order to come to that conclusion
your opening statement was
To paraphrase Lamont Cranston, "The weed of multiculturalism bears bitter fruit." :>
That at face value is difficult to grasp - First generation American of Palestinian descend managed to weather grade school and high school enlisted in US Army against the wishes of his parents who left him estranged. and yet he continued on. He re-enlisted and went for his doctorate. This does not appear to be a difficult in multiculturalism on it's face. This a soul divided between his country and his faith. So I question your initial response
to curry your favor i'll agree-" there can be no 50/50 Americanism in this country.There is room here for only 100 % Americanism, only for those who are Americans and nothing else."
TR
But I will beg you to heed the words of Alexis de Tocqueville: "Though it is very important for man as an individual that his religion should be true, that is not the case for society. Society has nothing to fear or hope from another life; what is most important for it is not that all citizens profess the true religion but that they should profess religion."
your statement Kenneth was as follows:
And again i will point out this individual was Western he managed his childhood and young adult life in the western world with seemingly no ill effect. So what has your premise been based upon? The ill effect of Multiculturalism - Socialism recognized multiculturalism was a disadvantage as did fascism and they took their own paths to abolish it. One in the name of Statism and the other the name of Totalitarianism they both ruled in a despotic murderous rampage that cost a horrific amount of human suffering and death- and might I mention they failed - I could agree in theory only that multiculturalism is a gum in the cogs of progress and it is cable of bogging down a society in waves of inertia that can drag a society into the brink-
But there are examples in history that the same multiculturalism provided the life blood to extending the society as well ( we could Argue said effect from Ancient Greece to current day United States)
Then you stated this:
We did not become a "diverse" society until Ted Kennedy's 1965 Immigration Act, the fruits of which we are now harvesting in Ft. Hood and elsewhere.">
And at this point i became inflame b/c despite my sheer loathing for "Swimmer" Ted Kennedy - Your point was in notion that his aim was of providing for Non European immigrants better access to citizenship over the Western -European migration. And thus why I pitched my my forks into you. I don't agree with our current immigration policy mind you, We have don't an awful job of it and have focused our efforts on importing poverty into our nation but I am not looking anything other social economics factors in that statement. As opposed to what you are apparently hanging your hat on - the basis that this traitor and murderer was else than a full blooded American despite He was blessed to be born on US soil
because he of a non western descendancy - That is the Bigotry I recognized.
Then we go to the mention of Christian violence black men to wit you seemingly ENDORSE with this trite remark
So diversity decreases social trust is a fair way to describe Men in cloaks and hoods,burning down school houses, driving out farms, hanging, murdering, raping and dragging a race of persons to their death. . .Because diversity decreases social trust - Not Bigotry - Not Racism -
not just plain Evil.
I will suggest that diversity is paramount to the human endeavor. Historically speaking diversity provided the greatest of Empires through man existence vast wealth and wisdom. Might I even suggest to bring it back to our original reason for this discussion in the first place- What If Major Nadal Hasan was a just and honorable soul? - the value he could have represented to the Army -could have vital,critical, and incredibly valuable. Diversity would be in that instant would a gold standard.
Let us Carry on shall we, Kenneth you stated
If your answer is yes, then you effectively advocate a policy of natonal suicide as this country is swamped economically, culturally,and environmentally.
If your anwser is no, then congratulations: You have just put yourself in the business of choosing who comes in and who stays out, the very practice you now decry.">
Yes I Agree Kenneth We do need to decide who comes into our nation - We do have the right to pick and choose who is join our society. And as I stated b-4, When you import poverty stricken people into your country you get more poverty in your country. You also increase the opportunities of these people a thousand fold - In a perfect world they would have the opportunity help effect change in their country of origins.
But this was not your point earlier. You pointed directly to the "65" legislation which advanced the immigration roles of persons other than Western Europeans - And pointedly criticized diversity and multiculturalism as the death kneel to US Society.
This Pearl of Wisdom is a beaut
Followed swiftly by
Um . . . U know what? U may not recognize it - Perhaps you are in still in the closet - but you my friend are a bigot and a xenophobe -
And I do not say that lightly- I have been called that a few times myself in discussions regarding immigration and the stunted assimilation some groups of persons have had within the US.
God Speed Sir
>Perhaps I was incorrect Kenneth and if I was I will apologize to you But I need to review your statements in order to come to that conclusion
No, you need only produce my purported claim that "all persons not cut of the European cloth or were of African slave descendants or the last of the Aboriginal tribes of the ( )Americas are substandard and of no value to the United States of America."
Instead, you engage in the lowest sort of rhetorical sleight-of-hand, such as your attempt to turn the contention--hardly original with me, as my references to Robert Putnam and John Stuart Mill make clear--that diversity decreases social trust into an endorsement of lynching. What will the next act of duplicity on your to-do list be? To blame Tay-Sachs Disease on Gregor Mendel because he dispassionately researched heredity in a monastery garden?
That, as well as the rest of your post, go to show that the worst thing about political correctness is that it makes people willfully stupid.
An excellent example of this is how you quote de Tocqueville's exhortation that "not that all citizens profess the true religion but that they should profess religion."
Do you really think that this makes de Tocqueville an advocate of a warm and fuzzy muliculturalism? If so, then you obviously are not familiar with something else he wrote: "I studied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself."
Here is another of your pearls of wisdom: "What If Major Nadal Hasan was a just and honorable soul? - the value he could have represented to the Army -could have vital,critical, and incredibly valuable. Diversity would be in that instant would a gold standard."
Is your idea of rational argument really to ask us to close our eyes and to pretend really, really hard that the facts are other than what they are? Far from being a just and honorable soul, Hasan was an obvious menace investigated by the FBI but nonetheless rendered untouchable by a politically correct military terrified of seeming, as you might put it while puffed up with indignation, "bigoted and xenophobic." Nor was he valuable to the Army--at least not ours. And the diversity that he embodied as he fired those hundred rounds into that room was not gold but rather hot lead that tore through the entrails of screaming human beings. I rather imagine that in those ghastly four minutes more than a few of them, like you, squeezed their eyes shut and tried to make believe that none of the slaughter was really happening. Somehow I doubt that it did them a hell of a lot of good.
Also par for the course are these words of yours: "And again i will point out this individual was Western he managed his childhood and young adult life in the western world with seemingly no ill effect. So what has your premise been based upon?"
My premise is that being born in America is no guarantee of Westernization. Far from it, if the recent experience of the British is any indication. ">A recent survey there "found disturbing evidence of young Muslims adopting more fundamentalist beliefs on key social and political issues than their parents or grandparents." Indeed, "forty per cent of Muslims between the ages of 16 and 24 said they would prefer to live under sharia law in Britain, a legal system based on the teachings of the Koran. The figure among over-55s, in contrast, was only 17 per cent." So much for assimilation. And the problem will grow in direct proportion to the sway that multiculturalism gains on society, particularly if good people allow themselves to be cowed by self-righteous loudmouths whose heads are filled with nothing but trendy theories.
You embarrass yourself. But at least I won't press for an apology now, given that its source would render it utterly without value.
Mr. Stevens: your citing a survey done in the UK as an example of US multi-culturalism and lack of assimilation?
The US is not the UK; I know I have lived in both countries; it's actually one of the reasons I love the US, it doesn't have the class system so prevalent in the UK and we actually assimilate people (or I would be speaking Italian, German or Matee right now and working in a blue collar job that needed little English).
Pat is correct--you have an unhealthy dislike of today's America. I hope you go through the list of those Army personnel shot and killed by Major Hasan. They are all those multi-culturalists you seem to have contempt for and are a fairly representative sample of the US military. It appears we multi-culturalists are now guarding your freedom to speak you mind on this forum (and interestingly how do you consider Mr. Bachelor's background and outlook....).
Kenneth has no need for me to defend him, but I would like to point out that I've read his posts for about a year now and have never seen any evidence about the dislike for multiculturalism that you are talking about.
What I have noticed, however, is that you have erred on the side of attributing racist qualities to people without figuring out where they're really coming from. Witness my Buffalo Soldier comment. Although I did use sarcasm to express my point, I thought it was pretty obvious that I was being critical of our abuse of black soldiers in the early days to take the heaviest casualties, and sarcastically suggesting that far from keeping Muslims out of the military, we'd probably (in our xenophobic way) end up keeping them in but using them in an abusive role. Naturally I am highly critical of anything that treats soldiers differently because of their race or ethnic origin, or religion. But you didn't know that about me. You would know it if you'd read my comments for 6 months and been objective in your assessment of me, but you didn't. Instead, you said "Shame on me" - for what was in actual fact my sticking up for your point.
You seem to have been trained in some school of thought that teaches you to gather evidence against conservatives and at a given point pull out the racism card once you feel you've gathered enough evidence to be able to support it. I think you're trying to build this case against Kenneth. You'll be as dead wrong about him as you were about me.
I think you can still salvage your position by stepping back, being more respectful of the other participants, and losing that tired old racism card from your bag of tricks.
You have done nothing but attack my motives for thinking the way I do, as if you had a window into my soul. What you have conspicuously failed to do to to even begin to refute any of the points I have tried to make in this thread. Bluster and abuse make poor substitutes for rational discussion, but in this case do at least serve to reveal the nature of what I oppose.
Mr. Filliger and Mr. Stevens (really not trying to be insulting here but this is where text does nothing for presentation I am attempting to be polite as I don't think I was disrespectful but since you both believe I have been, I must start from that belief and beg both your pardons):
yes, Mr. Filliger, I understand the Buffalo Soldier comment was sarcastic but sarcasm doesn't "translate" well on the page. I will leave it there that have read and re-read it, it didn't sit (and still doesn't) well with me. This isn't the 19th century and the Army doesn't operate by 19th century rules anymore. As I have said in previous posts, I am a retired Air Force officer but have operated in a joint environment since 1996 (until I retired this year) and so believe I understand their operating methodology.
I have not been commenting here though I have been reading comments since Mr. Bachelor came back from his hiatus and I have reviewed both his website and listened to his radio show when it was available to me--since 2001 I have spent 7 years overseas in the middle and far east and north eastern Europe so I haven't been able to hear Mr. Bachelor as much as I have wanted but have avidly read all of your (that a collective "your") comments and believe this is a forum where true discussion, not name-calling takes place. If I have overstepped in my anger I do apologize.
However, here is where I believe, Mr. Stevens, I feel you steped over a line for me.
"Nonsense. The Thirteen Colonies consisted almost exclusively of whites (who were in fact immigrants), slaves (not immigrants) and Indians (not immigrants, whom we mostly exterminated). We did not become a "diverse" society until Ted Kennedy's 1965 Immigration Act, the fruits of which we are now harvesting in Ft. Hood and elsewhere."
I believe this statement is incorrect and inaccurate. And then this one:
"You glimpse the truth, albeit through a glass, darkly. My point through this entire thread has been that people of widely divergent backgrounds tend to treat each other very badly indeed, often enslaving or exterminating those different from themselves, whether here in America or elsewhere, such as in the Balkans--probably for genetically-driven reasons rooted in evolutionary psychology, one of many subjects the majority of posters on this thread appear quite innocent of. (I suspect that Mr. Filliger is a happy exception to this.) Human nature is no more amenable to multiculturalism than it is to Marxism. Both are gods that failed."
The US is nothing like the Balkans, who can't forget an act of treachery 700 years ago and continue to fight on. And diversity has been the US culture since it's founding, though "diversity" is the PC name for it---accepting a person as they are is what we used to call it.
The US military is a reflection of the US population especially now with an all volunteer force (you'd might be surprized about this but a volunteer force has better rich-poor, educated-under-educated balance then previous drafted forces as no one is "buying" their way out of serving and all are happy to be there--the Major Hasans being the exception).
Again I will direct you to those men and women who died that day and those who jumped in to help. Everyone of them has a background of "mixed" or American culture. They are more representative of our military, our culture (whatever that maybe) and our country, then the Major Hasans or MSgt Russells. They are real people who have real impact on the defense of the United States and who are true patriots. And oddly may have faced some of the same problems the majors (and others did) did but did not turn killer as he (and others) did.
As I said what the US military will need to do is figure out why this major did turn killer; otherwise the military faces something far more terrible then political correctness; It faces not knowing if the enemy lies within us.
And you can't just point to Muslims and say: "your fault" because the major violated just about every tenet of Islam. And perhaps he thought he was making a political statement and that is something that the investigation should find out; and most assuredly his colleagues should have picked up on a problem and that should be looked at too. But his family is shocked and apologetic for his actions not dancing in the streets so I don't think it's his upbring.
However, the major isn't a good poster person for saying that human nature doesn't accept diversity (or multi-culturalism). The US isn't what the founding fathers imagined true but it isn't because diversity can't live within a democracy (or a republic). It's because just like us they had no idea what the world would look like in 280 or so years.
Thank you both for your time; I realize these posts may not have changed your minds but hopefully I will have expressed a point of view you can consider. I apologize for being snarky (and believe me had no intention to be racist--and, sorry, still don't see where I was in my ramblings--I never considered either of you anything but individuals so the worst I believe you can call me out on is being a jerk, for which I again deeply apologize). Thank you. Joy Shasteen
Thanks for the explanation. Re: Buffalo Soldier comment - I believe that America as a society is just as racist as it ever was. Racism has just been driven underground. I take it that the comment didn't sit well with you because you think it was a swipe at the military. If so, I don't think the military's any more or any more less racist than America at large. Since I've never been in the military, if you tell me it is less racist on the average, I'll have to take your word for it, but it seems illogical to me given that it is simply a demographic cross-section of America as a whole. If the military is in fact less racist than America at large, then Ft. Hood sure doesn't go a long way to corroborate your point of view.
First, and most importantly, thank you for your apology. On one occasion I myself have been taken to task by Mr. Batchelor for somewhat similar behavior.
Second, no one here has accused you in any way, shape, or form of racism, but rather of eagerness to label those who disagree with you as being themselves racist, doubtless in a hasty attempt on your part to seize the moral high ground. That you think anyone here called you a racist reveals your regrettable failure to read the above posts with anything that resembles diligence; perhaps this explains your difficulties in grasping my points as well as Mr. Filliger's. Certainly he expresses himelf with altogether more care than do most of the other visitors to this place, and in my own imperfect fashion I strive to do likewise.
Third, you commit the serious error of ahistoricism--ironic in so ardent a proponent of multiculturalism, no?--when you breezily dismiss any attempt to draw lessons from the experiences that other lands. If you take the time to examine multicultural societies, however, you will find that they are invariably torn by racial and religious strife, or else they are ruled by a ruthless central government that resorts to oppressive measures to keep the lid on the ethnic cauldron. Those who advocate multiculturalism seem blissfully unaware of this painful truth, just as Marxists refuse to grasp that Marxism has yet to work in any country where it has been tried. No reason exists to think that the results of multiculturalism will be any happier in America than elsewhere.
No, anonymous, the US is nothing like the Balkans. Or Lebanon. Or Sri Lanka. Or Rwanda. Not yet. But if the multiculturalists who exalt diversity as the highest good get their way, some day in the not terribly distant future there will be those in other countries who will say, "Our country is nothing like America--thank God."
The first sentence of the third paragraph should read, "Third, you commit the serious error of ahistoricism--ironic in so ardent a proponent of multiculturalism, no?--when you breezily dismiss any attempt to draw lessons from the experiences of other lands."
I can see areas where we do disagree---I do believe the US military is a reflection of the US but I guess I believe there is less racism overall in the US. And I do understand the error of ahistoricism but honestly believe the US to be different...i.e. Reagan's famous "city on the hill" (even though the biblical quote was actually discussing Jerusalem). I guess I may be naive or too propagandized by 30 years in the military and see America through rose-color glasses). I have lived in many different countries with many different governments and in different societies and still find the US the most attractive which is why I retain an optimism that much of the US (at least in the US media) seems to have lost. Perhaps the optimism is misplaced; for now I will try to keep my optimist view...for every Major Hasan there is a Lance P. Sijan (see below)
"Lance Sijan was born to Sylvester and Jane Sijan in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. His father, who owned a restaurant, was of Serbian ancestry; his mother was an Irish-American. Lance was the eldest of three children. After graduating from Bay View High School, he attended the Naval Academy Preperatory School in Newport, Rhode Island. He then gained an appointment to the United States Air Force Academy at Colorado Springs, Colorado. He played on the academy's football team for three years, but quit the team in his final year to concentrate on his studies. Graduating in 1965, he was awarded a second lieutenant's commission and began pilot training. After its completion, he was assigned to the 366th Fighter Wing, stationed at Da Nang Air Base, South Vietnam. He flew as a pilot and systems officer in an F-4 Phantom.
On the night of November 9, 1967, for his 52nd combat mission, Sijan and pilot Lt. Col. John Armstrong were tasked with a bombing mission over North Vietnam. As they rolled in on their target to release their ordnance, their F-4C was engulfed in a ball of fire, due to the bomb fuses malfunctioning and causing a premature detonation on their release. The Phantom then entered a banking climb before plunging into the jungle. Sijan managed to eject from the aircraft, and a search-and-rescue crew radioed him that they were attempting a rescue. After almost a whole day was spent locating his position and softening up air defences in the area, the SAR forces were finally able to get one of the big Jolly Green Giant helicopters roughly over Sijan's position. During this operation over 20 aircraft were damaged by anti-aircraft fire and had to return to base. One aircraft was shot down, though its pilot was rescued by a helicopter on station. Sijan, refusing to put other airmen in danger, insisted on crawling into the jungle and having a penetrator lowered by the helicopter, instead of sending down the helicopter's Para-Jumpers to carry him. However, the helicopter crew could not spot him in the jungle and after 33 minutes the rescue team, which faced enemy fire and the growing darkness, had to withdraw. Search efforts continued the next day, but they were called off when no further radio contact was made with Sijan He was placed in MIA status.
Sijan had suffered a fractured skull, a mangled right hand, and a compound fracture of the left leg from his rough landing. He was without food, with very little water, and no survival kit; nevertheless, he evaded enemy forces for 46 days (all the time scooting on his back down the rocky limestone karst on which he landed, causing more injuries). He was finally captured by the North Vietnamese on Christmas Day, 1967. Emaciated and in poor health, he still managed to overpower his guard and escape, but was recaptured several hours later.
Sijan was transported to a holding compound in Vinh, North Vietnam, where he was placed in the care of two other POWs, Air Force Colonel Robert R. Craner and Air Force Captain Guy D. Gruters. In considerable pain from his wounds, he suffered beatings and extensive torture from his captors, but never gave any information other than what the Geneva Convention allowed. Suffering from exhaustion, malnutrition, and disease, he was sent to Hanoi. In his weakened state, he contracted pneumonia and died in Hoa Lo Prison (the notorious Hanoi Hilton) on January 22, 1968 all the while still planning his escape.
First Lieutenant Sijan was promoted posthumously to captain on June 13, 1968. His remains were repatriated on March 13, 1974 and were positively identified on April 22, 1974. He was buried with military honors in Arlington Park Cemetery in Milwaukee. It was Colonel Craner who recommended him for the Medal of Honor. This award was corroborated with Captain Guy Gruters' testimony and Sijan received the Medal of Honor posthumously in 1976."
>for every Major Hasan there is a Lance P. Sijan
Yes, all very inspiring, i'm sure. But it doesn't take many Hasans to turn this country into precisely the kind of un bearably violent multicultural entity that Sijan's ancestors wanted to get away from, now does it? Where will our grandchildren escape to when the multiculturalists have Balkanized the United States in the name of a toxic ideology?
One of the guests on the show tonight made an excellent observation: if the shooter had gone into an abortion clinic and there was evidence that it was a right to life activist would Obama have immediately come out and warned everyone against jumping to conclusions?
Bottom line - for me, this is a military problem and let the military sort it out.
>Bottom line - for me, this is a military problem and let the military sort it out.
Is there another Hasan out there fingering his prayer beads in a missile sile or aboard a nuclear sub, or perhaps inside one of those clandestine bioweapons labs that we allegedly no longer possess? If so, then let us hope that our security measures work better than they did on 9/11, lest it become something larger than a merely military problem.
It certainly looks like he has ties to other terrorist activities, notwithstanding the comments on the show last night. However, even if he were a Vice President of al Qaeda, the military still could have prevented this from occurring, at least to the extent it did. My point is that when you secure an area from attack you should start with the weakest possible point of entry. The events at Fort Hood indicate that because of its uber-pc culture, the military may in fact be that weakest link, and they are best suited to identify their own problems and fix them. I am thinking specifically of how incompetent and inefficient it would be for, say, members of Congress to parade this through the news and interview all the leaders of the base, etc. Ridiculous. Let the military fix its own problems, even if those problems are intimately related to off-base problems.
As the story is developing Hasan may or may not had contact w/ Al Queda- He attended a mosque at a time in which a fundamentalist Imam had preached there ( Imam' website today are glorifying his actions)
But We have yet to clarify anything past his mindset leading to the horror show he began
Another story developing is that Intelligence was "aware" of Hasan growing radical views and attempts to contact terrorist organizations
And now we have persons who were witness to Hasan' Anti-American spew but were afraid to be considered discriminatory. This is where we see common sense fail us for the purpose of political correctness. Common Sense drives one sound the alarm bell when you see a smoldering fire.
That's the danger in limiting freedom of speech.
When I was a kid my Dad would always yell at my Mom and me if either of us would criticize his driving or back-seat drive in any way. His health began failing in his later years and his eyesight wasn't that great. I remember we were driving down I-90 one evening just after sunset and a car with no lights and a trailer behind it pulled out about a quarter mile in front of us at a very slow speed. My Dad didn't slow down - I could tell he couldn't see the car ahead of us. But I had been instructed not to say anything. I watched with horror as we bore down on the car with us doing 70 and the other car doing about 10. We got past the point where a crash could be avoided and I still held my silence. Finally with perhaps 30 yards to come my Dad finally saw the car, slammed on the breaks, spun our car out, smashed into the median strip, swerved back, broadsided the other car, and rolled to a stop. Miraculously, nobody was hurt.
The highway patrol arrived on the scene and asked me to come into the patrol car by myself (without my parents) so I could tell them what happened. I explained exactly what happened, and I said "To back-seat drive my Dad is a fate worse than death, and I had to choose which I was more afraid of." I chose death.
The lesson to be learned from this amusing little story is that we as a society would all rather DIE than be accused of being racist. And, we may get our wish.
Lou - i concur
I live in NY the Wife commutes into NYC daily. The See Anything Say Something campaign is everywhere and yet the odd sensational of feeling hyper vigilant to standard everyday occurrences on 9/10/01 is disorientating
There are 2 Imams parked outside Penn station w/ regular schedules "preaching" Radical fundamentalism. Prior to 9/11 - they were the typical flavor du jour of the screeching street monger. Today they are villainous Tomorrow who knows?
There is one overwhelming question i have regarding Hasan though. If He was going rouge ( no offense to Gov Palin) and CIA & FBI had him on the their watch list - When did he purchase the guns and ammo? And if they are in chronological order- than we have a much bigger problems than being politically correct, do we not?
I go with Mr. Bachelor on this--this is the second story; one more before we find any truth.
I don't know the answers to all that, but you've just hit on the reason why I personally make a point of repeating myself whenever somebody corrects me for having said something offensive. The only exception is when I actually didn't intend to say what I said. That may happen some day .... who knows. The only way to fight PC-ism is to turn up the volume when one is instructed to shut up.
You better hope that you like the third story better than you liked the first two!
I doubt it...can there be a "better" story? Hasan is crazy is the first (and yet the Army didn't see it (be it PC-blindness or stupidity it doesn't bode well for the military). Hasan is a homegrown terrorist is the second; if the enemy can recruit inside the military we are really in trouble. What will be number three--he was a sleeper agent...not liking the implications of this one (especially not liking that some intel agency (no names in the media yet) were "watching" him without telling the military....so we still aren't coordinated in FBI, CIA, DIA, Army intel, CID talking...meaning 9/11s are still possible)) . It's only getting worse.
Fox news reports that he had been going to a local strip club and that he was polite and a good tipper
I got it! How about if he was a "plant" by the extreme left-wing, to make right-wing blogs and talk-show hosts jump to erroneous conclusions and look like racists as a result, when after all it was really someone of Judao-Christian heritage who put him up to it? Boy, oh boy, won't we all look stupid then? (Well, some of us probably already look stupid, but I mean, even stupider..... )
No offense, Spencer, I posted the "already look stupid" remark before your post appeared on the thread just before mine. Sorry bout that!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573052,00.html
Prefers blondes ... proves he's a gentleman, at least!
didn't 9/11 slime hit the strip club's b-4 their suicide mission?
- do jihad instructions indicate one should have un pure thoughts and a hangover b-4 suicide missions commence?
You know the big promise is that you get X number of virgins in the next lifetime if you die in a suicide mission like that.
Is it true that if you DON'T die doing Jihad you don't get the virgins and then have broken the tenant not to hurt the innocent. Presumably, killing innocents (infidels) is OK if you die, but not if you don't. Keeping the terrorist alive is denying them their rewards. Maybe that's behind Gitmo and the long term jailing of the Sheik in NY.
... in which case they divvy up your virgins and parcel them out among the next successful group of jihadists.
I'm going to have to take up hiding with Salman Rushdie if I keep this up.
Word is that you can put in a special request and get MILFs instead of virgins ... this is the Jihad version of the "public option".
Anon#2- I believe that is why the "Big 5" keep coming into tribunal hearings and professing their guilt and asking to be executed immediately... to achieve martyr status.
Other manifestations are in theater where Islamist militants in firefights are detonating their expbelts when it is determined that all is lost and capture is imminent.
From what I gather, there is no indication that Hasan had planned to attack his fellow soldiers. No evidence from his computer nor from his cell phone.
More and more this is pointing to a strike against himself with a death wish that could not be accomplished alone.
We'll see
- No coordinated attack is what i think u are stressing spencer correct?
it is pretty clear enough he had come to his decision within the 24 hrs. prior his actions- classic suicidal behavior in giving away his possessions oh and the small fact locked and loaded coming on to the post.
though I am still grimly surprised given the un named intelligence reports of having him on their to do list that 1) he wasn't rolled swiftly 2) he didn't garner the interest of even the less intelligent wanna be terror unsubs-
Curious really